Fullsize Metz gun on Pentax?

I've been enjoying using my AF280T - it certainly looks the business with its impressive iso and distance scales, and with some experimentation it is possible to get well exposed shots in most situations. But I have to admit, when combined with a manual lense, the sheer number of individual settings that need to be managed, (focus ring, set to manual mode, iso setting on camera and flash, read off the aperture setting on the flash and set on aperture ring, make any aperture adjustments for bounce flash, green button to stop down - then try a test shot and adjust till right) - theres a lot goin on!

In a quick moving situation I'm missing shots. Also, I got some Gary Fong Lighspheres link but unfortunately they don't fit on a compact style flash head.

I know what you're thinking - why change a flash to fit an accessory, not the other way round - but these diffusers will do what I need, which is to light up a room evenly with minimum fuss.

So I thought about trying a Metz unit. It seems you can get full P-TTL on Pentax (I think?) which would cut out a few extra steps in setting up, and they have always looked to be a quality brand, and cheaper tha Pentax. Does anyone have experiences with any Metz uiits or other advice? It would need to have the fullsize flash (full length really) flash head.

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K7 with BG4 Grip, Samyang 14mm f2.8, DA18-55 WR, 'A' 28mm f2.8, 'K' 75-150 f4.0, Tamron Adaptall 135mm f2.8, AF280T flashgun, Pentax 2X teleconverter, remote control unit

You could also try the Sigma EF 610 DG Super. The UI is not too hot, but they're cheaper than Metz, and they work properly on Pentax cameras.

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Yves (another one of those crazy Canucks)

Thanks, yes I've seen the Sigma guns - they look like a capable budget option. The Metz ones have a more modern looking design and controls, and they boast about a USB input for firmware updates, which their advertising claims would be able to take advantage of future changes to camera functionality in newer camera models. Anyone ever updated their flashgun firmware?

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K7 with BG4 Grip, Samyang 14mm f2.8, DA18-55 WR, 'A' 28mm f2.8, 'K' 75-150 f4.0, Tamron Adaptall 135mm f2.8, AF280T flashgun, Pentax 2X teleconverter, remote control unit

I own a 44-AF1. Excellent gun !! Yes I have updated the firmware twice, first was to change test fire from full power to 1/128th I believe it was and then secondly to change manual power outputs in slave mode I think it was

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Gareth

My outfit K5 gripped - Pentax-FA 50mm f1.4 - Pentax 16-45mm F4
Pentax 18-55mm WR - Kenko 1.5x TC - Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 Di LD - Metz 48 AF1 - 2 x Cactus V2 triggers
fully portable mobile studio and some mobile strobist studio stuff !

Flickr

Gareth, Does it only test fire at 1/128th?
Bit useless if it does... I normally test fire a flash
at FULL power to see how long the batteries take to
charge it up again.... If it's slow I change the
batteries.

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Pentax K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

Right, all sounds good. I was disappointed that the G Fong Lightspheres didn't fit - its really a problem with the flash head attachment nodes (for want of a better description). They stick out at the base of the head, preventing the plastic diffuser from fitting on. I guess this is a older design. Most new flashes I've seen look like they have the nodes, or head hinges flush with the surface of the head.

In any case, the diffuser company website lists the Metz 44 as being compatable. SRS here I come.

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K7 with BG4 Grip, Samyang 14mm f2.8, DA18-55 WR, 'A' 28mm f2.8, 'K' 75-150 f4.0, Tamron Adaptall 135mm f2.8, AF280T flashgun, Pentax 2X teleconverter, remote control unit

Bit old thread, sorry.

But I always thought that pTTL will not work with manual lenses. If so, you don't gain much or you might even be better off with your existing flash. You might be sacrificing auto mode and/or power levels.

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Pentax K10D + Vivitar 55/2.8 macro + Super Takumar 55/1.8 + SuperMultiCoated Takumar 85/1.8 + SuperMultiCoated Takumar 135/3.5 + SuperMultiCoated Takumar 200/4 + Super Takumar 300/4
Pentax K100D + DA18-55ALII + DA55-300
Pentax K5 + FA31Ltd + M50/1.7 + DFA100WR + M120/2.8 (+ DA18-55WR at occasion)

Thanks for that thought steretje . I haven't yet bought the new flashgun. I've got to consider all the different uses also - I do have a new DA 18-55 wr zoom, which would offer full P-TTL. You're right, to work fully the camera would have to receive the focal length data and aperture setting from the lens, and it measures the pre-flash 'through the lens' also.

The older AF280T I've got has a light detector at the front (a small hole with a green ring around it) which measures the reflected flash output, and it offers a confirmation light on the back if all is well.

I guess the Metz wouldn't have this, as it works 'throught' the lens. The question is, with the old lenses would you get any automatic flash functioning at all?

I wonder if anyone else could comment, even if they own a modern Pentax flash - how do you control the flash output when using old lenses. One of mine is a 'A' series prime, with an 'a' setting on the aperture ring, and the other is a 'K' (super Takumar type) with no 'a setting'. Would this make any difference to any of the possible flash functioning I wonder??

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K7 with BG4 Grip, Samyang 14mm f2.8, DA18-55 WR, 'A' 28mm f2.8, 'K' 75-150 f4.0, Tamron Adaptall 135mm f2.8, AF280T flashgun, Pentax 2X teleconverter, remote control unit

The sensor is only used when the flash is in auto-mode.

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Pentax K10D + Vivitar 55/2.8 macro + Super Takumar 55/1.8 + SuperMultiCoated Takumar 85/1.8 + SuperMultiCoated Takumar 135/3.5 + SuperMultiCoated Takumar 200/4 + Super Takumar 300/4
Pentax K100D + DA18-55ALII + DA55-300
Pentax K5 + FA31Ltd + M50/1.7 + DFA100WR + M120/2.8 (+ DA18-55WR at occasion)

I have a copy version of the Gary Fong lightsphere. It also didn't fit BUT! I had 2 options. One was to cut down the plastic grips on the lightsphere base as width was fine but length was impaired, a little chop here and there will fix that and it'll fit perfectly but one slip and I could ruin it. The other option that I'm currently doing is much easier! The Stofen diffuser for the Metz has a wider section to fit over the flash head but the actual diffuser part is tapered smaller. This actually push fits into the base of the lightsphere The Stofen works well wedged into the lightsphere as it illuminates during flash acting like a little extra small fill light!

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Gareth

My outfit K5 gripped - Pentax-FA 50mm f1.4 - Pentax 16-45mm F4
Pentax 18-55mm WR - Kenko 1.5x TC - Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 Di LD - Metz 48 AF1 - 2 x Cactus V2 triggers
fully portable mobile studio and some mobile strobist studio stuff !

Flickr

You see now, you don't always want to put the flash into P-TTL mode, that's rather lazy! How to control flash with older lenses? Switch the flash to manual output and learn about flash photography

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Gareth

My outfit K5 gripped - Pentax-FA 50mm f1.4 - Pentax 16-45mm F4
Pentax 18-55mm WR - Kenko 1.5x TC - Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 Di LD - Metz 48 AF1 - 2 x Cactus V2 triggers
fully portable mobile studio and some mobile strobist studio stuff !

Flickr

Yes, I really would like to learn more about flash in general, and definately full manual flash is something I will try and experiment with. But my OP was about the amount of time it took (with the manual lenses in conjunction with the older flash unit) get get shots perfectly exposed when there are so many individual settings to manage.

I do think that P-TTL must be a great advantage in situations when there's not a lot of time to get ready before the action has moved on. Even with my DA zoom and the AF280T there's a few things to check and set before shooting. I would like the option of P-TTL if required.

But of course I also want to shoot good flash exposures with the manual lenses, and my AF280T does provide some degree of auto functioning. I was struck by sterretje's suggestion that I might actually lose even this amount of auto control with the Metz unit.I had assumed I'd have more control with a modern gun.

Is it likely that achieving good balanced flash exposure with the manual lenses will be easier on the Metz unit than the older Pentax AF model?

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K7 with BG4 Grip, Samyang 14mm f2.8, DA18-55 WR, 'A' 28mm f2.8, 'K' 75-150 f4.0, Tamron Adaptall 135mm f2.8, AF280T flashgun, Pentax 2X teleconverter, remote control unit

No, it won't be easier or harder as if you understand flash then it shouldn't make a different with what gun you use as long as it has manual outputs, no flash no matter how expensive will give you amazing images if you haven't got a clue what your doing with it. The Metz gun has more manual power settings than the AF280T so in theory it should make life easier, especially if you have to tone the power right down for fill in work, close ups etc.

P-TTL is great and yes, if your in a rush then great, turn on, adjust a few camera settings and fire away but personally I shoot roughly half my shots in aperture priority and the remainder in full manual mode. More often that not the camera will be in full manual mode if I'm using flash as lets say I'm shooting at a venue with even lighting then camera will be in full manual, then I'll roughly guess the flash output and dial that in as a manual output, take a test shot, change settings and then retake the test shot. As the camera will not be making any decisions as its in manual and so is the flashgun then I know every image will be correctly exposed without the camera over or under powering the flash power which does happen if something freaks the metering out like a bright lamp in the background etc (although I check every 5 images to make sure its still correct and nothings changed!)

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Gareth

My outfit K5 gripped - Pentax-FA 50mm f1.4 - Pentax 16-45mm F4
Pentax 18-55mm WR - Kenko 1.5x TC - Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 Di LD - Metz 48 AF1 - 2 x Cactus V2 triggers
fully portable mobile studio and some mobile strobist studio stuff !

Flickr

One of the best things I ever bought was a cordless
flash meter. I can't remember ever using anything
other than manual flash. f8 on the lens works 90%
of the time.

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Pentax K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

Ok Gareth, fair enough. I guess the 'difference' I might see will be in the nature of the controls - I'm glad you say there are more manual settings on the Metz - this combined with its modern electronic controls should make the experience a bit 'easier'.

So it looks like I'll have to continue to think about subject distance and aperture with the manual lenses. I wonder if the Metz gun can tell the user the aperture to use for a particular iso and subject distance (like the scales on the AF280T? And another thought - I wonder if you can control the flash head zoom manually?

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K7 with BG4 Grip, Samyang 14mm f2.8, DA18-55 WR, 'A' 28mm f2.8, 'K' 75-150 f4.0, Tamron Adaptall 135mm f2.8, AF280T flashgun, Pentax 2X teleconverter, remote control unit